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The Death Of Liberalism

BeatMan

My wife doesn't know I'm a perv!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/267836/death-liberalism-daniel-greenfield

Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is an investigative journalist and writer focusing on the radical left and Islamic terrorism.

Liberalism is a dirty word in today’s left. You hear it most often as an insult, neoliberalism, hurled by the hard left against anyone accused of insufficient hostility to free enterprise and other open systems. If you trust the free market and individual judgement over state regulation, you might just be a neoliberal.

And neoliberals are the biggest enemies of the left.

Liberal has become a slur on the illiberal left which is intolerant of open and tolerant systems. The defining symbol of the illiberal left is the campus safe space where no free speech is allowed. Safe spaces take the college, once the symbol of a liberal commitment to the free exchange of ideas, and invert it into a space that is safe from the free exchange of ideas under a warm and fuzzy name.

The safe space isn’t a campus eccentricity. As the riots from Berkeley to Boston show, using violence to silence free speech isn’t just something overzealous college kids do. It’s what the left does now. And sympathetic lefty mayors of cities put on the same show of helplessness as university administrators.

When the New York Times runs multiple editorials attacking the very idea of speech, one such op-ed claimed that some forms of speech were stressful and therefore a form of violence, it’s not college kids.

It’s the illiberal left.

After Trump’s win, the left reacted by finding fault with an excessively open society. The media blamed “Fake News” spread on social media for his victory and pressured Facebook, Twitter and Google into agreeing to its let its fact checkers decide what was and wasn’t legitimate. It wasn’t censorship, they insisted. It was social responsibility. And social responsibility is how censors justify what they do.

Meanwhile the latest wave of blacklists seeks to shut down organizations and silence individuals.

The post-election paranoia over Fake News and Russia, and the blacklisting surge have a common underlying theme. Our society is too open. Something has to be done to securely shut it down.

Free speech has the same problem as free enterprise. It assumes that we should trust people.

And why would we want to do that? People are stupid, racist, selfish and greedy. If you give them a chance they’ll sell large sodas, buy salty foods, shout racist slurs, watch FOX News and vote for Trump.

The illiberal left’s contempt for the individual has even bigger implications for the justice system.

There was a time when “Innocent until proven guilty” was the gold standard in criminal justice. These days it’s as extinct as “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Instead certain kinds of people are always innocent and other kinds of people are always guilty. The Baltimore drug dealer has a presumption of innocence from here to eternity, but the police officer who arrests him needs to be locked up now. Campus rape cases should begin with guilty until proven innocent, but the same rape case in an urban area should begin with a presumption of innocence.

The illiberal left’s panics over certain types of crimes, police brutality or campus rapes, and the call for ruthless crackdowns, are indistinguishable from the sort of crime panics that it used to condemn.

But the old liberal view of the justice system was balanced on the fulcrum of individual rights. And the illiberal left only believes in group rights. Why bother deciding if Bob did it? Individuals don’t matter. What does matter is doing the intersectional math to see who is being oppressed here.

If Bob is a drug dealer in the ghetto, he’s a victim. If he’s a white Lacrosse player at Duke, hang him.

The left thrilled when the ACLU defended Islamic terrorists “on principle”, but was furious when it defended Neo-Nazis “on principle”. Principles are only meant to protect the bad people the left likes.

It’s not just court cases. All rights on the left proceed from the same denial of equality in the name of equality. Some people are entitled to free speech and a fair trial. A whole lot of others aren’t.

The old liberal view was that the blatantly guilty deserved as fair of a trial as the innocent. And that the most repugnant of cretins had the same right to free speech as the best of us. Rights don’t protect the best of us or even the rest of us. They protect all of us because a fair system is a free system.

That’s where the left breaks utterly with liberalism. It doesn’t believe that a free system is a fair one. Only a system where the outcome is predetermined to favor oppressed peoples is fair and just.

The left isn’t just picking winners and losers in business. It picks winners and losers when it comes to who gets to speak, who gets to practice their religion (Muslim judges are welcome, Catholic judges aren’t) and who gets a fair trial and who gets a kangaroo court backed by a howling internet lynch mob.

There are two basic views of how to make the world a better place. The first is an open system that will let everyone decide what they want to do. The second is to have the right people running everything.

The liberal element of the left is almost dead. The leftists who believed that open systems plus organizing, activism and education would lead naturally to the triumph of their ideas are a dying breed. Today’s leftists don’t strive to build open systems, only closed ones. They don’t educate about the value of free speech, the marketplace of ideas and the presumption of innocence. Instead they warn about the dangers of these things and call on corporations and colleges to take action and stamp them out.

Open systems are a challenge to be met with closed systems from campus safe spaces to internet censorship. Hate groups shouldn’t be debated; they should be beaten and stamped out. If the last couple of elections haven’t gone your way, use the judicial activism of unelected officials to block the policies of elected officials. If people don’t believe what they read in your papers and on your sites, watch and hear on your stations, pressure corporate internet monopolies to censor the competition.

The illiberal left uses crises and panics to build its closed system. There are always emergencies like Trump’s election, for media censorship, Ferguson, for bypassing legal norms to go after police, and campus microaggressions, for replacing free speech with safe spaces. Totalitarians always justify shortcutting civil rights by citing an urgent emergency that requires immediate action.

Do it now. No time to think. We can’t breathe. Look at my mattress. Trump is the new Hitler.

After 9/11, the left lectured Americans that the mere murder of thousands, attacks on the Pentagon and the White House, didn’t justify abrogating any civil rights. Today the left insists that politically incorrect Halloween costumes and their uncle’s Facebook posts are crises that justify any abrogation.

The same system that could handle a major terrorist insurgency is utterly incapable of handling fake news on Facebook. No Islamic terrorist was too dangerous to justify abrogating his civil rights, but a drunken frat boy is too great a threat for the same justice system to be allowed to take its course.

The left leaps through a series of crises that require urgent abuses, swift penalties and closed systems.

There are too many people saying the wrong things, buying the wrong things, dressing the wrong way, reading the wrong things and voting the wrong way. It’s an emergency. And the solution is illiberalism.

The embryonic stage in which leftists thought that illiberal utopian ends could be accomplished through liberal means is ending. The illiberal only adhere to liberal means as long as they believe that people are basically “good” and when properly educated will agree with them,. When they are disillusioned by setbacks or divided by identity politics into “us” and “them”, they revert to their illiberal premise.

The theme of the illiberal left is that people are bad and must be berated or beaten out of their badness. They must be forced to undergo reeducation courses at colleges and corporations; they must be shamed, censored, threatened and assaulted. And if you disagree, you might just be the last liberal.
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
What a crock of shit

BeatMan loves himself FrontPageMag, which from everything I've looked at posted so far, is extreme-right-wing-batshittery. InfoWars, without conspiracies. Breitbart, without being dressed up as news (I guess; I've mostly only looked at what BeatMan's posted so far). The dude behind it, David Horowitz, certainly isn't any better than Jones or Bannon.
 

Johan

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
I consider myself to be Center-Left, according to the european political spectrum, which would make me a leftist according to the american political spectrum.

I don't like the word "liberal", I don't consider myself a liberal, mostly because, being economicaly liberal means being pro-free market, pro-corporations, anti-regulations, etc. And that's exactly what the word "liberal" means in French.
I consider myself as a progressive, I want society to go forward, to progress (as opposed to conservatives who want it no to evolve or even want it to go backward towards 1955).
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
I consider myself to be Center-Left, according to the european political spectrum, which would make me a leftist according to the american political spectrum.
Correction: According to today's American political spectrum, that makes you a pinko communist Marxist. But to be fair, that's because our spectrum as described by a few members here looks something like:
Left |---------------|Center|--------------| Right
<------------------Pinko commies^ | ^ Real America
 

Supafly

Retired Morgenmuffel
Bronze Member
Wow, Beats, another grand post with 99% of the post as a fullquote.

I expect less and less from you.

And you say liberals are dying?
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
:wave:



:stir:
 

cornytone

I'm secretly in love with Ron Jeremy!
The political taxonomy in this country is ass fucking backwards. liberalism and Neoliberalism have different connotations but they sound same so people assume it means the same. If you are familiar with liberalism or Classic liberalism in economics, you conjure up Adam Smith, Margret Thacher, and Ronald Reagan. Free Market Capitalism. liberalism, on the other hand, is a contemperanous term, to identify the gooey sentimental parential figure that doesn't like you saying anything that is not nice because it too offensive. But People don't make the effort of being informed enough to make those distinctions anymore. They just listen to what a yelling radio talk show host has to say about Neoliberalism and repeats it like they know what they are talking about.
 

sean miguel

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
The left thrilled when the ACLU defended Islamic terrorists “on principle”, but was furious when it defended Neo-Nazis “on principle”. Principles are only meant to protect the bad people the left likes.

It’s not just court cases. All rights on the left proceed from the same denial of equality in the name of equality. Some people are entitled to free speech and a fair trial. A whole lot of others aren’t.

The old liberal view was that the blatantly guilty deserved as fair of a trial as the innocent. And that the most repugnant of cretins had the same right to free speech as the best of us. Rights don’t protect the best of us or even the rest of us. They protect all of us because a fair system is a free system.

That’s where the left breaks utterly with liberalism. It doesn’t believe that a free system is a fair one. Only a system where the outcome is predetermined to favor oppressed peoples is fair and just.

The left isn’t just picking winners and losers in business. It picks winners and losers when it comes to who gets to speak, who gets to practice their religion (Muslim judges are welcome, Catholic judges aren’t) and who gets a fair trial and who gets a kangaroo court backed by a howling internet lynch mob.

There are two basic views of how to make the world a better place. The first is an open system that will let everyone decide what they want to do. The second is to have the right people running everything.

nailed it.

these aren't your father or grandfather's liberals. c'mon everybody, smile on your brother. Everybody get together, try to love one another right now.




“For while Communists make full use of liberals and their solicitudes, and sometimes flatter them to their faces, in private they treat them with that sneering contempt that the strong and predatory almost invariably feel for victims who volunteer to help in their own victimization” - Whittaker Chambers, Witness
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
The political taxonomy in this country is ass fucking backwards. liberalism and Neoliberalism have different connotations but they sound same so people assume it means the same. If you are familiar with liberalism or Classic liberalism in economics, you conjure up Adam Smith, Margret Thacher, and Ronald Reagan. Free Market Capitalism. liberalism, on the other hand, is a contemperanous term, to identify the gooey sentimental parential figure that doesn't like you saying anything that is not nice because it too offensive. But People don't make the effort of being informed enough to make those distinctions anymore. They just listen to what a yelling radio talk show host has to say about Neoliberalism and repeats it like they know what they are talking about.

politicalcompass.org writes quite a bit on this very issue. You're right - the word 'liberal' today doesn't mean much, as liberals of the past were on the right - when they started lumping in social libertarianism as 'left' (and conversely, social authoritarianism as 'right'), things get real muddied - hence the unneeded but still popular 'neoliberal' - a corporatist who doesn't care if gays are getting married. Or alternatively, a classic liberal, but with some crony capitalism thrown in for wealth-redistributing (contrary to popular conservative belief, evidence has shown this only going in one direction - up) fun. I always get a chuckle out of conservatives when they call mainstream Democrats 'far left' or even 'left'. There hasn't been a Democrat on the left on the presidential ballot in my lifetime. Sanders came the closest.

Splitting things apart into two axes is useful and necessary for accuracy. I use the Political Compass's framework, but the other options are similar enough.
 

Straight Shooter

1,000 posts to go for my own user title!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/267836/death-liberalism-daniel-greenfield

The liberal element of the left is almost dead. The leftists who believed that open systems plus organizing, activism and education would lead naturally to the triumph of their ideas are a dying breed. Today’s leftists don’t strive to build open systems, only closed ones. They don’t educate about the value of free speech, the marketplace of ideas and the presumption of innocence. Instead they warn about the dangers of these things and call on corporations and colleges to take action and stamp them out.

Amen. The Left no longer stands for liberal ideals. What happened to supporting equality of women? Free speech? Islam treats women like shit and so you would think liberals would be denouncing this crap but no. They defend Islam. So much for liberal values. Free speech? Do I have to explain what's going on college campuses these days? Yep Liberalism is dead
 

Johan

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
Amen. The Left no longer stands for liberal ideals. What happened to supporting equality of women? Free speech? Islam treats women like shit and so you would think liberals would be denouncing this crap but no. They defend Islam. So much for liberal values. Free speech? Do I have to explain what's going on college campuses these days? Yep Liberalism is dead
All religions treat women like shit.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife
Ephesians 5:22-33

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet
1 Timothy 2:11-15

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God
1 Corinthians 11:3

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands
1 Peter 3:1

Now if you think mostl muslims treat their wives like shit, I could introduce to many muslim women who are not submissive, who don't wear the hidjab and muslim men who don't think women's only purpose is to bear and educate children, who consider their wives as equal to them.

Now it is true that some muslim treat their women like slaves. I hate it and I condemn it.
Free speech ? Liberals are anti free-speech ? You're gonna tell us that when Trump constantly tries to bully members of the press who express their negative views about him or his policy ? Gimme a break. Campuses ? Students just exercice their right to free speech, telling that they don't want to hear people like Milos Yanopoulos.
 

sean miguel

I'm too lazy to set a usertitle.
All religions treat women like shit.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife
Ephesians 5:22-33

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet
1 Timothy 2:11-15

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God
1 Corinthians 11:3

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands
1 Peter 3:1

Now if you think mostl muslims treat their wives like shit, I could introduce to many muslim women who are not submissive, who don't wear the hidjab and muslim men who don't think women's only purpose is to bear and educate children, who consider their wives as equal to them.

Now it is true that some muslim treat their women like slaves. I hate it and I condemn it.
Free speech ? Liberals are anti free-speech ? You're gonna tell us that when Trump constantly tries to bully members of the press who express their negative views about him or his policy ? Gimme a break. Campuses ? Students just exercice their right to free speech, telling that they don't want to hear people like Milos Yanopoulos.

c'mon now. the berkeley antifa and other leftist protesters are just making their voices heard? they don't HAVE to hear Milos or anyone else. What they are doing is preventing Milos and others like him from being heard.


and how many christians are giving their daughters clitorectomies? or honor killing them for dating or wearing jeans? or how about stoning women because they had the audacity to be raped?

leave it to johan to rush to islam's defense while decrying "all religions."
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Amen. The Left no longer stands for liberal ideals. What happened to supporting equality of women? Free speech? Islam treats women like shit and so you would think liberals would be denouncing this crap but no. They defend Islam. So much for liberal values. Free speech? Do I have to explain what's going on college campuses these days? Yep Liberalism is dead

Now see you are equating "the left" with true liberalism and perhaps it is a matter of semantics here but I consider those positions to be extremist, not true liberal. Just like I don't consider the new Trump-style neo-populist nationalist model to represent true conservatism....which is the reason you'll never see me trash conservatives as a whole since, in fiscal matters at least, I are one. I might refer to those on the right in a bad manner but, when I do, I'm not talking about true conservatives, more the alt-right (I guess) or whatever they are. Perhaps the dynamics and demographics with either political leaning are in a state of flux right now and it's me that's out of step but I sure ain't changing my core principles and and I haven't since the 1970s. I'm just an old hippie and I don't know what do do....should I hang on to the old, or grab on to the new? ;)

Anybody have some sheets, man? I need to twist one up, man. :joint:
 

bodie54

If FreeOnes was a woman, I'd marry her!
Amen. The Left no longer stands for liberal ideals. What happened to supporting equality of women? Free speech? Islam treats women like shit and so you would think liberals would be denouncing this crap but no. They defend Islam. So much for liberal values.

Maybe haven't noticed that muslim women are doing pretty well here in america.
Liberals don't defend all aspects of islam when it comes to how parts of it are acted out globally. Not even close. On the contrary.
What we defend is the right of law abiding muslim U.S. citizens to practice their religion under the Constitution here in the United States without being put on watch lists, deported or otherwise treated as terrorists in sheep's clothing.

how many christians are giving their daughters clitorectomies? or honor killing them for dating or wearing jeans? or how about stoning women because they had the audacity to be raped?

How many american muslims are?
I can maybe think of a handful of cases at most.

FGM was practiced in the U.S. as well as some of the other Western countries as a medical procedure in form of clitoridectomy and female circumcision in the 1800s and all the way into late 1970s, as means to "cure" female masturbation, hysteria, nymphomania and excess sexual desire, lesbianism, lack of female orgasm during traditional intercourse, and a number of other conditions considered abnormal or immoral at the time. It was covered by the Blue Cross health insurance until 1977. Performing FGM on anyone under the age of 18 became illegal in the U.S. in 1997
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
and how many christians are giving their daughters clitorectomies?

FGM was practiced in the U.S. as well as some of the other Western countries as a medical procedure in form of clitoridectomy and female circumcision in the 1800s and all the way into late 1970s, as means to "cure" female masturbation, hysteria, nymphomania and excess sexual desire, lesbianism, lack of female orgasm during traditional intercourse, and a number of other conditions considered abnormal or immoral at the time. It was covered by the Blue Cross health insurance until 1977. Performing FGM on anyone under the age of 18 became illegal in the U.S. in 1997

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac.../fact-checking-reza-aslans-retort-bill-maher/
"Not only does the Muslim world have something in common with ISIS, it has too much in common with ISIS," Maher said at one point.

As an example, Maher brought up female genital mutilation, which refers to procedures that remove, in part or in whole, external genitalia for a non-medical reason.
[...]
Our ruling

Aslan rejected Maher’s characterization of female genital mutilation as an Islamic problem, saying instead that it’s actually "a central African problem."

Due to immigration, the term "central African" may be too restrictive, but his larger point -- that this is not a problem in only Muslim countries -- is valid. Countries with majority-Christian populations also carry out this practice, while Islamic-majority countries like Iraq and Yemen have rates on the lower side.

We rate Aslan’s claim Mostly True.

Aslan goes on some stretches at times, but his central point of confusing causal with correlative variables is important.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife
Ephesians 5:22-33

Nothing wrong with that verse. You're taking it out of context.

Men are supposed to treat their wives with respect.


Ephesians 5:25-33 (KJV)

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
 
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